We Are Power Podcast
The We Are Power podcast is the podcast for your career and your life. A weekly podcast with listeners in over 60 countries worldwide where you'll hear personal life stories, top-notch industry advice, and key leadership insight from amazing role models. The podcast not only aids your personal and professional development but also delves deep into conversations around Gender Equality and Social Mobility. Each week the We Are Power Podcast will bring you a new interview from a leader within the 100,000-strong We Are Power community, hosted by Simone Roche MBE.
We Are Power Podcast
Building a Career in International Trade and Business: Paul Kallee-Grover MBE's Inspiring Story
Join us as Paul Kallee-Grover MBE shares his extraordinary journey, revealing the unexpected honour of receiving an MBE during the tumultuous times of 2021. From his initial spark of interest in urban regeneration and geography to launching his own venture, Key Partnership, Paul opens up about his evolution from a connector of ideas in international real estate to a trailblazing entrepreneur. Discover how a chance encounter with a former CEO set him on a new path, emphasising the excitement of projects over people management, and how this has shaped his professional adventure.
Explore the world of international markets alongside an export champion who has been at the forefront of promoting UK trade overseas. Paul's story unfolds from a pivotal moment at the 2010 World Expo in China to his impactful roles, including those at Arup. As an export champion since 2013, he has dedicated himself to nurturing startups, providing invaluable cultural and licensing advice. Hear how his experiences, bolstered by a prestigious education at MIT and overcoming personal challenges like ADHD and dyslexia, have fuelled his passion for mentoring businesses and individuals alike, earning him accolades such as a Board of Trade Award.
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Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power podcast. If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is the podcast for you, your career and your life. We release an episode every single Monday with listeners in over 60 countries worldwide, where you'll hear personal life stories, top-notch industry advice and key leadership insight from amazing role models. As we Are Power is the umbrella brand to Northern Power Women Awards, which celebrates hundreds of female role models and advocates every year. This is where you can hear stories from all of our awards alumni and stay up to date with everything. Mpw Awards and we Are Power Never imitated, never replicated singularly wonderful, everybody's wonder girl. Well, hello and welcome to the podcast. Today I am joined by the incredible, wonderful look at him. Look at that smile. Paul Cully Grover, mbe. Does that ever get old?
Speaker 2:No. Does it get old for you? No, no.
Speaker 1:It's a while now it is.
Speaker 2:It is, and I think every time there's a new batch come out, I get so excited.
Speaker 1:Well, for every year I literally to the annoyance of my husband, Rob, because they come out, they get announced at like 10 o'clock at night, and so we just had the recent batch of news. I go through them. There's 158 pages on a PDF and I always go through because I think it's quite overwhelming, isn't it? Yes, my husband always says it was, what was it?
Speaker 2:My bloody effort is what it stands for and I'm like, is it Rob?
Speaker 1:But what did it feel like when you got that envelope through and what did you get it for?
Speaker 2:I got it for international trade. So it came. It was that odd year, it was 2021. So we were kind of in COVID not quite in COVID. I'd left a company, started in a new business. So it all just felt very strange because, as I said, I've been doing international trade for, at that point, a decade and I'd been working with the government as an export champion. But because I think we were in a sort of a COVID-ish world, I hadn't really seen anybody. So to then get something in the post from an organisation you've been working with for quite a while was to think, well, I've seen you all on teams and I've done zoom calls with you all, but I've not. You know, at that point in time I wasn't doing any international trade and I didn't realise these things take two to three years to go through the process and a lot of times and I say this to people you know you might get knocked back one or two times. I had no idea. I don't know if you had any idea no idea at all.
Speaker 2:So I think sometimes for people it's patience. Your time will come, and to just be recognised is great.
Speaker 1:It's wonderful. It is wonderful and you so let's talk about you. We've talked about international trade. You have your own business Key Partnership, which you set up in 2021.
Speaker 2:2021, yeah.
Speaker 1:But where did your adventure? You know, you've worked for Arup previously as well. Where did your whole kind of career adventure? How did you get to this point that you get the lovely? Well, it's not a very lovely envelope, it's a brown envelope that looks like a tax statement that gets you get your MBE, for you know, services to international trade.
Speaker 2:But where did your adventure take you? Where did that start to get you in? I think you go back to sort of my early teens really. So I was really fortunate I had someone who guided me, both in terms of GCSEs. A-levels degree actually gave me my first job. So you know, from the age of sort of 12, somebody had been guiding is the word I'm going to use and you know, I wanted to work in sort of regeneration and cities and I love geography and it's like, well, there's certain things you can do and certain things you can't. I'm not great at maths, so civil engineering was out the and it was like, well, why don't you think about planning and law and those sorts of things? So that's kind of the path I went on and I worked for a number of international real estate companies in the UK, but then, as I got more advanced, the opportunities then came to go to their other offices. That's the exciting bit.
Speaker 1:And how would you, with all these adventures you've had? How would you describe poor Callie Grover in a couple of sentences? Is that even possible?
Speaker 2:It is possible. Yes, it's like the elevator pitch, isn't it? I'm a connector, I connect people. I connect people to ideas, ideas to people, people to projects, projects to places. So yeah, I connect things.
Speaker 1:You're a matchmaker.
Speaker 2:Kind of a matchmaker Kind of a matchmaker.
Speaker 1:Is this what led you to setting up Key?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'd worked for corporates and there's nothing wrong with corporates Corporates are great but I kind of had my time and you get to a point in your career where you spend more time managing people and not managing the projects and it's the projects I get excited by. That's where my knowledge came in. So, as I said, I'd had a career working for a lot of multinationals and then in that COVID period I went to actually work for a family office Never done that before. So working for sort of a mom and pop team type thing, you know, and you're there with the owner of the business, really in the business. I said I love this, this is really exciting.
Speaker 2:Um, and an opportunity came up and, um, he, you know the, the, the uh, the CEO of that business actually gave me money to help me set up and said here you go, here's, here's three months. Uh, this will see you through set up. And said here you go, here's three months, this will see you through. Give it a go, see what happens. And you know that. You know I'm so grateful to Chris and his team for giving me that start.
Speaker 1:Really, but that, ultimately, the world is about relationships, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is about relationships.
Speaker 1:We talk about money makes the world go round. But if we don't have those relationships and that network community, then nothing's possible, right?
Speaker 2:Nothing's possible and you know, as I said, it's with his blessing. So there were certain clients that came with me and other clients where we had that conversation and said well, you know they're your client, so we were working with family offices. So it is all about relationships, it's all about families working, creating opportunities. So I was very fortunate when I set up I had a couple of those clients, plus others I'd worked with for years, who helped me, so that initial three months that I'd been given I didn't really need it, luckily. But I think for starting up on your own it's you know you've got mortgages to pay and bills to pay and it's kind of like very, very nervous, anxious time, like am I doing the right thing?
Speaker 1:And what did you? You talked about before that sort of the. You had someone helping you make those decisions. When you were A-levels, your degree gave your first job. You know mentorship, I suppose if you like, definitely mentorship. Where did you go to for that advice? You had support from the family office, but where did you go to when you were thinking you've set up keen you're like, am I?
Speaker 2:actually doing the right thing? Do I actually know what? You know how to make this work, as my own amazing network of um people in Liverpool that I work with, um, lots of um important, powerful women in the city and I reached out to all of them and just said can we sit down, can we have a conversation? You know I'd never done accounts before. You know all these kinds of things. It's like where do I go, who do you use, who could you recommend? And there was sort of a lot of learning. I think we always say that when you set up in business a lot of learning. But I'm three years in, so I've always been conscious. You know most businesses fail in 12 months when you've got 18 months and then three years, which you know. I'm just enjoying it, so we'll see where we go right and what.
Speaker 1:What advice would you give to anyone out there who's you know, you know, having their own adventure in their career and maybe thinking they want to be brave and do something bold or whatever. What advice would you give them apart from find a good accountant?
Speaker 2:yeah, find a good accountant, step out and do it and, I think, speak to a number of people, speak to people number of people, speak to people who've done it, and people who've done it will tell you the pitfalls. They'll tell you what you've done wrong. So you know, I can say this now, one of the things I did very early on I launched my business. I was very you know, this is my company key partnerships, this is what my brand is, all this sort of stuff and then I got served with a notice to not use the logo, not use the name, and that costs me a lot of money to resolve very early on. Had I have gone through things in the right process, it wouldn't have been a challenge. So I say to people now like, just make sure you've done this, speak to someone around this. There are so many voices that can help you and places you can go.
Speaker 1:And people want to help right.
Speaker 2:They really do, and what they really want to do is go. This went awfully wrong for me. Try not to do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we don't want that do we?
Speaker 2:Nobody wants that.
Speaker 1:How can we help people avoid making those mistakes? And where are we now? 11 years you've been serving as a… Export champion, an export champion. Now for me, I feel like there's a superhero cape coming into play. But what is that? How did that come about? So what does it look?
Speaker 2:like. At that point I'd been working on my own business or the company I was working for at that time, and we were working in lots of different international markets and we had an opportunity to enter into China. So this was actually 2010, a long, long time ago now and Liverpool as a city was the only UK city represented at the World Expo. So the government at the time came to my company and said would your business be interested in going out to Shanghai and finding an opportunity? And that's how it kind of started the conversation. And we did. We went out there, we set up an office, we did all sorts of things off the back of that and then I moved over to Arup, which you mentioned, and with Arup again, there was lots of opportunities in different markets. So an export champion this sort of they first came out in 2013. So this was a Northwest concept under a chap called Clive Drinkwater and his team at the it was UKTI, then it's now Department of Business and Trade and they wanted this sort of network built around them of people who had done it, so that if you were a startup business, you could go.
Speaker 2:What do I do in this market? What do I need to be aware of. What cultural training do I need, what licensing do I need, and who better than businesses? So that was the initial piece, and there's still five of us who've been there from the very beginning. Um, but it's um, it's sort of 600 odd now, I believe, across the country. It's sort of been rolled out, um, and every year, uh, they decide, you know, are new people going to come in, are people going to move on?
Speaker 2:And I've been very fortunate. I I've been asked to stay each year and I will say this I was the first one to sort of walk the floor. So most people it's attached to the business and then when they leave the business, it's gone, whereas I've moved several businesses and kept the title. So it's more about me and what I can do with the business than it is around. You know, just leaving it with the business, sort of thing. So, yeah, that was great and it talks about the MBE piece.
Speaker 2:So back in 2018, I was one of I think it was four of us originally who won this sort of border trade award, a bofter they were called. Yeah, brilliant, it's as near as I'm going to get Board of Trade Award, and that was giving us sort of recognition for what we were doing to support the UK PLC overseas, and really I've just sort of built on that. And for me now having both the you know, the export champion Board of Trade, the MBEbe, when I look at new markets, I speak to an ambassador, I speak to the team on the ground and it's kind of like an endorsement that I know what I'm doing, um, but also I'm bringing all these businesses behind me. Can you help?
Speaker 1:that's what it's for really and that giving back, helping, paying it forward is something that strikes me, is that's integral in your DNA.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know you want to help. You're happy to ask for help, but you have roles at the Liverpool City region Wirral Chamber. You've got really key advisory roles within these organisations.
Speaker 2:I do. I do that, but I also do sort of private mentoring as well. So I really love just working with businesses, which which is which is what I love seeing them explore new markets, sell products, um. I've got a few people, um, through your organization that I've I've mentored, and then I've got some people I mentor in north america, um, and this is just really about helping them, find out about them, so talking, listening, that sort of stuff and I.
Speaker 1:It wasn't so long ago that we had a conversation and I don't know that it was during the judging, because you've been one of our judges for a good few years now and you always love coming in for the discussion, and this year, everyone, we were all in person, weren't we? So it was amazing. But uh, you talked about people reaching out to you on LinkedIn for mentoring.
Speaker 2:Yes, I had a couple just before Christmas actually. Um, and I think if you look at my LinkedIn, it's always a balance. You know there is a lot of work on there. There's a lot of personal stuff and I try and sort of talk to people about. You know, what is the purpose of social media posts really? And it's to give a sort of a more rounder version of yourself. You can be just talking about work or you can just be talking about yourself. So I try and Can we have a chat?
Speaker 1:Well, you have so many strings to your bow. A master's from MIT in Boston, yeah. How on earth did that come about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really odd. Well, it's not odd, it's strange. So I've never been academically gifted right. I was diagnosed when I was 18 with ADHD, dyslexia, dyscalculia. We've now got dysgraphia as well. So you know, all these things are seen as negatives. I no longer see them as negatives, which is really good. You know they've all got sort of disorder. I ignore the disorder bit and just think that they give me the ability to do things. So that would never have been on my cards when I was sort of 17 or 18.
Speaker 2:I went to a good university, went to Cardiff, studied planning and law and I did well, I worked full time. So I didn't get a first, I did okay. And then, when I was working for one of these multinational companies, they said look, we've got a partnership with MIT and we're looking to put some of our staff with opportunities through. Would you consider it? And I was like would I consider getting a qualification through MIT? Yes, I would, and I've had strong links with Boston for a number of years and to actually go and study there and use all these things. And I go a lot. I'm regularly in America now and when I take over businesses from the uk I go straight into the mit. It's like I'm an alumni. Let me in here, let me see the you know the um, the chief for this department head, and that has been really useful. Again I had an opportunity, so I really want to showcase now and mit, as you know, is sort of leading in a lot of these fields. I was doing urban resilience, yeah, and urban resilience.
Speaker 1:What even is that?
Speaker 2:so it's really just the the impact on external factors on it can be on business, it can be on climate, it can be all sorts of things and it's how you cope with that. So it's, when you put something under stress, whether it's a city, whether it's a rail system, a road system, your business. And I remember when we were doing scenarios, so I studied this in 18, 19. And one of the scenarios we want to do is about a pandemic, and they were like, oh well, that's never going to happen, let's not do that.
Speaker 2:Let's focus on climate change or something. So yeah, a couple, couple of years later then to see the pandemic um was really interesting because it was kind of, how do businesses work? And and when you did that course, it wasn't just you on your own, obviously, there was people from pharmaceutical companies, there was people from foundations, so actually, again, it was that network.
Speaker 1:That was the exciting bit and we've talked about key the business. We've talked about your roles, your advisory roles and board roles. We've talked. You've got a new role at the playhouse and everyman theater trustee trustee there.
Speaker 1:Indeed, that's amazing. That's literally just been announced, I think just before christmas. Um, sometimes and you know you took the opportunity to to go in and do the masters in boston, but sometimes it can be overwhelming and you know, can't fit it all in. How have you managed to make that jigsaw piece? All those pieces fit, because there's other pieces in there, because you're you're paul the human, the the paddleboarder yeah, the surfer the voiceover artist.
Speaker 2:Yeah do voiceover, voiceover stuff in America as you do. Two soap operas, actually, Two online podcast soap operas, I think if you want to call them yeah, we can do a whole other episode on that.
Speaker 1:And equally, let's not even forget the fact that you used to play keyboards in a 90s band.
Speaker 2:I still do play keyboards in a 90s band, yeah. Or I should say I stand behind a keyboard in a 90s band. I still do play keyboards in a 90s band, yeah. Or I should say I stand behind a keyboard and look great and just look amazing, right yeah, yeah but how do you make all those pieces fit?
Speaker 1:you just make them fit and walk the dog and walk the dog.
Speaker 2:I, you know, I, my philosophy has always been, you know, say yes and then work it out. So I think, for me, you know, often people ask me do you want to do this or do you want, and I'll say yes, before I thought about what it actually means. Um, and for the most part, you can, you can do it. You know, I think one of my biggest challenges this was a couple of years ago now. I got asked to do one of those charity strictly things, um, have that on my notes right here.
Speaker 2:Yeah let's just weren't you in pink. I was in pink. Well, it was, we were barbie right, I wasn't barbie, I was ken, but you know um. So yeah, it was, it was very interesting, but, um, I didn't realize how much work goes into that. You can't just rock up and do that.
Speaker 1:Because you have a pretty professional dancer, don't you to work with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have 10 weeks to work with and the pressure's about letting them down. But it's also. You're raising money for charity. You've got friends, family, whatever else in the room and early on I was like, oh well, it's just a laugh, everyone's going to give you a lot of stuff. No, they're not. No, they're not. They want BBC quality dance.
Speaker 1:And so do you right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I did. Yeah Well, you've won a BAFTA. This is a step to a BAFTA, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the way to get there. I would say it was. You know, I like pushing myself out of my comfort zone. That was probably as far as I've gone, um, out my comfort zone, because even when I'm doing, the keyboard stuff. There's a keyboard in front of me, yeah and I'm, uh, I'm, you know I'm not singing. There's a singer doing all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm background what dance did you do?
Speaker 2:we did the samba, um to dance the night away, which was the barbie, the barbie main song. Um, there was a lift, there was all sorts of stuff, there was a lot of glitter and, uh, diamantes. That was just me. Um, I had diamante cuban hills.
Speaker 1:They were amazing still, got them still got them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know when I'm gonna wear them again on a surfboard.
Speaker 1:Well, rob did it. Rob did northern power. My husband did uh strictly many years ago for roy castle um, and he did argentinian tango to Seven Nation Army is what he did, and he was full on spandex. It's one for the team there They've just learned that about Rob.
Speaker 1:But just going back to the question, actually, how do you make all that work for you? Because before we started rolling today we talked about you know you spend a lot of time in Newquay. That's a happy place for you. But before we started rolling today we talked about you know you spend a lot of time in new key.
Speaker 1:That's a happy place for you um but then how are you going to be able to get to here, or I need to get to china, or I need to get to boston, you know, but you're making that work for you, your downtime I'm always working, so my downtime in my work time.
Speaker 2:So I'd say you know I wouldn't promote this for everybody, but seven days I do stuff over days. I'm not working full-time any one of those days. I get things done, I get things fitted. I think that's where I said you know, growing up, having or being diagnosed with ADHD, you're told you can't do this, you can't do this. These are all challenges, whereas I've learned through, like the ADHD Foundation, which is here in Liverpool, that there you know, if you channel that, you use that in the right way, which is here in Liverpool that if you channel that, you use that in the right way, it works for me. So I've got multiple plates spinning at any one time. The challenge is to make sure none of those plates drop.
Speaker 1:Maybe get some plastic ones.
Speaker 2:That's what I was going to say plastic plates, but that actually works for me. So I work better. In an environment where I've got lots of things on at once, I think the worst thing for me is like a blank in the diary. I'm like, well, what was that meant to be? You know, I'd rather have three or four things. So straight after this I'm going to go and see a new business. I've got another business to see later on. In between I'll probably fit in a gym session.
Speaker 2:So it's one of these where you know I was thinking because I knew I was coming into you and I'd just been out surfing a few days ago. There's this moment when I'm just looking at the horizon, looking for that perfect wave to come in, and you have to read everything the weather conditions, the water conditions, who's around you, what's going on and then watching the waves to work out that you've got to flip, turn, do all your bits and pieces to get the perfect wave to ride. In. Most of the time you're not going to get it, it's not going to be the right wave, but when you do get it, that elation, that sort of endorphin rush.
Speaker 2:And I'd say that's what I do with my work. I constantly look at the horizon, what's coming? How can I prepare for that? What can I do? Who can I bring with me? All these sorts of things. So you know, know, for me that sort of works really well. And and again, when I'm doing certain sports, and you'll see these, these are all high, high focus, high adrenaline. Because of of my conditions, I can't do something that goes over a long period of time. I'll get bored um, whereas if I do something that's short and bursts, it works. It works perfectly for me you do you right.
Speaker 1:That's what, yeah, and you talked earlier about, say you know I, my whole ethos is say yes, say yes and work it out later. You know, and it will come off. Is there? Is there a a real motivational quotation out there that you live by? Just say yes.
Speaker 2:Just say yes, like I'm doing a three peaks challenge later this year, because I said, jess, just before Christmas someone was having a foot operation and said, oh, I'd really like to be able to climb a mountain. I was like, well, why don't we do three? You know, it's that kind of thing Go big or go home, right, right. So we'll see how that works out.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that has come through this whole conversation. You talked earlier around about when you were setting key up. I'm going to sit down with some. You specifically went to sort of key women in the city and in your network to sit down and communicate with and, you know, listen to and ask for advice. You are, you know, a real unsung advocate and I think you're very happy to give and offer opportunities and support. But do you, do you identify as a really strong advocate for gender equality?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, but I don't see it. I just kind of reach out to people and I think you know it's looking for people who may be marginalized for whatever reason, sort of to stick together and it's just sort of, you know, if somebody can do something, I'll ask them. It just so happens that I know certain women who've been very successful in their businesses created their own businesses or creating businesses and I think for me I just need to reach out to people who who have done that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that works for me and other than um three peaks challenge yep is any more dancing there's no more dancing, any more keyboarding yeah, there is actually. I've got low. I've got three or four gigs over the summer, um, some pretty big ones actually, which I'm quite looking forward to. You know, big festivals and stuff. So that should that should be exciting. Um, I'm off to moldova in a couple of weeks time.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know if you saw um on my socials. We uh we sort of orchestrated, facilitated a new air route to to moldova. So I'm working with the diaspora at the moment. That that that community um on trade links. So I'm going out there as sort of a pre-trade uh to go and speak to ministers and british ambassador or whatever. Um, and then later in the year we'll take a delegation out to go and see what are the business opportunities. So, again, most people don't know much about Moldova, but it's on the border with the Ukraine and borders Romania. They're on a fast track ascension into the EU, so there's lots of opportunities for businesses and so, yeah, it's an exciting market.
Speaker 1:And do you think that ability to spot is one of your superpowers? Do you see that? Yeah, definitely. Or do you have a crystal ball?
Speaker 2:No, I think. I always think I'm a firm believer that you can make business with anyone. You know you can connect with anybody. Let's get stuck in a lift and see what happens. And you asked me earlier you know what does my business do? And again, this sort of elevator pitch.
Speaker 2:I actually went to an event sounds more glamorous than it was. It's in New York, so you know it's quite glamorous and it was an elevator networking event. I was like, oh, what's this all about? And you get there and it's a huge queue of people and they put you in a group of four into a lift that takes two minutes to get to the top floor. I said you've got two minutes, 30 seconds each, to find out about each other's businesses and when the doors open to the room of people up there you've got to introduce each other. So you've got to work out.
Speaker 2:As those doors shut, am I just going to talk about myself for a minute and therefore someone else is going to miss out, or am I just going to listen which I don't do very well and absorb that information? Oh, it was horrible. I hated it, but it works really well and I learned so much just from that and a few other networking events like don't have your name on. You Don't have your name because you know my name's quite long and you've got all the letters and stuff. Somebody there had one of the Sesame Street characters like Elmo or something, so I remember him now and that wasn't their name, but it was their sort of ability for you to stand out in the crowd.
Speaker 1:So how did you? I want to go back that two minute. There must have been a lot of lifts, right?
Speaker 2:No, no. Well, there was a speed lift and then there was the slow lift that went up. You had to turn the key in it. So four of you Four of you 30 seconds each intro for each other. You'd never met them before in your life and you were in a lift.
Speaker 1:And how did the person intro you?
Speaker 2:Really badly because one of the other people had chatted for a good you know 40 seconds, 50 seconds on the way up and when you've got to focus. You know which is hard for me, um, being able to have that sort of control. And I then went on a another mission where we went over to north america was an lgbt business leaders mission. So all the businesses were either led by lgbt people or had involvement in lgbt, and on our first day it was like what is your business? And I'd sit there for like 10 minutes. You know, my business is blah, blah, blah, blah and it would every day it'd have to get shorter and shorter and shorter.
Speaker 2:So the elevator pitch is you know, what does key partnerships do? And we add value to business. That's it. We can then expand on what that means and what we do and all these sorts of things. But so often I say to people, what do you do, what is your business? And they just kind of you know, all the words come out of you and you've got to try and work out what it is You're talking about me.
Speaker 2:Aren't you important in North America? When you're doing business out there, they want to kind of get down to the core of you. And then this is where the thick skin comes in. If they're not interested, they're gone. They are literally moved on from you, disposable. But you've got to play a game. I like to call it, sort of like you know, guess who, or snap. So let's just say I met you and we're talking and you decide you're going to go off. And when I meet a woman who's looking to become an entrepreneur, I'd have to remember where you were in the room to find her, to bring you back together. So it's that connector piece and that's really valuable. If they see value in you connecting people, even though your business might not connect, they see value in you. Then the next time they want somebody or have a need for something, they'll come back and say, oh, do you know somebody or could you help me with this? And that's really worked for me.
Speaker 1:And that connecting, that's your superpower. It's connecting.
Speaker 2:yeah, it's your superpower. Yeah, guess who Snap.
Speaker 1:What's the superpower? We don't know about you.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know about my superpower.
Speaker 1:Tell me you could do a handstand or a headstand on your paddleboard. I wish I could. I wish I could.
Speaker 2:No, I think you know, my whole sort of professional career is about predicting what's going to happen, you know, and trying to avoid certain things. So I've always been quite good at that, I've always been sort of very good at that sort of visualization piece. So, yeah, that would be. It's not really a superpower, is it?
Speaker 1:of course it's a superpower, although I do think you could be working up to that. Headstand on the and your happy place is new key my happy place is in water ah, so it can be anywhere I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm absolutely fine um cold, warm, warm would be nice open water swimming quite a lot, yeah, so I'm happiest near water, but I'm from Brighton originally, right, so this is always funny. I have to know where the water is when I sleep, you know, it's one of those kind of things. I need to know where the edge is.
Speaker 1:And interestingly I remember, during whatever point it was in the lockdown, you went past our boat on a paddleboard and it was brilliant, you were like oh my God, we're not speaking to humans in forever. Socially distanced paddleboard meeting wasn't it, it was, it was amazing.
Speaker 2:I did a few of those board meetings, as we called them, when we weren't allowed to do anything, and then we went on to sort of running meetings. There was a whole sort of piece where it's just really just, you know, trying to do something a little bit more interesting, more fun really.
Speaker 1:And what are you most excited about this year?
Speaker 2:Oh, this year or this month shall we say, In a couple of weeks we've got the Chinese New Year celebration and I do the Chinese Dragon Of course you do that's that's.
Speaker 2:We just started training um. So it, yeah, that's really exciting, and we do that in chester and then we do it in liverpool um on the first weekend of february. So first and second um, because that's where chinese new year falls this year. Um, I said I'll be in moldova before that and then I'm going to be out in France for MIPIN, which is the the big property event in in Cannes, supporting some of my clients in Liverpool and also finding some new clients, hopefully amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1:Paul Calligrover, you're a legend. I love everything that you do. It's about giving back, you're paying it forward. You make time and space for others and thank you so much for being a massive advocate and support for everything that we do. Space for others. And thank you so much for being a massive advocate and supporter for everything that we do at we are power thank you, thank you so much, thank you subscribe on youtube, apple, amazon music, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
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