We Are Power Podcast
The We Are PoWEr podcast spotlights voices and perspectives that need to be heard. Our weekly podcast, with listeners in over 60 countries, delivers PoWErful conversations that inspire, challenge, and empower... from personal life stories to business insights and leadership lessons.
We share diverse experiences, bold discussions, and real solutions. Whether you're looking for career advice, topical themes, or stories of resilience and success - this is where voices spark change.
We Are Power Podcast
Dr. Penny Trayner: The Unexpected Link Between DJing and Brain Rehabilitation
In this episode of the We Are PoWEr Podcast, we sit down with Dr Penny Trayner, a neuropsychologist who has discovered a fascinating connection between DJing and brain recovery.
Penny shares how her work in neuropsychology led her to explore the impact of music on rehabilitation and why she believes that the only real barrier is what we tell ourselves. She also reflects on her childhood in Abu Dhabi, how her parents’ careers and support shaped her, and the drive to help people that guides her work today.
Beyond her groundbreaking research, Penny has also taken to the decks, DJing at the Northern PoWEr Women Awards—Europe’s largest celebration of gender equality—for two years in a row. She also discusses the significance of receiving a purple plaque in recognition of her award-winning innovation.
If you’re looking for inspiration, proof that music can heal, or a reminder that you can achieve anything, this episode is not to be missed.
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power podcast. If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is the podcast for you, your career and your life. We release an episode every single Monday with listeners in over 60 countries worldwide, where you'll hear personal life stories, top-notch industry advice and key leadership insight from amazing role models. As we Are Power is the umbrella brand to Northern Power Women Awards, which celebrates hundreds of female role models and advocates every year. This is where you can hear stories from all of our awards alumni and stay up to date with everything MPW Awards and we Are Power. Today I am joined by the quite simply awesome Dr Penny Traynor. I'm taking a breath here. Multi-award winning paediatric, clinical neuropsychologist, clinical psychologist, academic, director of University of Liverpool, fellow higher of education academy expert witness that just sounds like CSI. Health tech entrepreneur, dj and radio presenter. What else? Come on, there's got to be more.
Speaker 2:I think that's it for today, Simone. We'll, by the end of the day, maybe a bit more, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:It goes without saying that no two days will ever be the same right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely and actually, following a conversation with you, I'm sure I'll have five other things I'll be doing by the end of this. Well, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You're also on our future list, shortlisted or finalist in the 2023 awards and the resident after show lounge player at the 24 and 25 Northern Power Women Awards with. Obviously, they're letting co-presenters as well don't they?
Speaker 2:They are. I had a little DJ helping me out today this week, so I had a little back-to-back with Simone.
Speaker 1:Well, do you know what it was after last year's awards? It was one of my very, very, very good friends, sonia's big 5-0 birthday, or shall I say 4-0,. Just I don't want her to be in trouble and I came to you and I knew that you did which we'll get into in a bit DJing as a side hustle, but also as rehabilitation, which is phenomenal. Anyway, I bought my friend Sonia DJ lessons which I had the opportunity to go with, and so literally two lessons in. I'm going to perform at the After Show Lounge. There are some brilliant pictures from last week. It was phenomenal.
Speaker 2:What I love this moment, though, that you put yourself out there and had that feeling of what it's like to do something new and fresh, and I know that's something you really encourage all of us to do all of the time, and it was just great for you to be embodying that and showing everyone how to do it, because it takes quite something to get up at your event, um, and get on those decks and DJ, and I was super proud of of you and I know your team were. So, yeah, we're looking forward to a longer set next year, so get it planned.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I think? One of the things about it is it's so mindful and is that why, you know, I don't know how we quite navigate your career, miss Penny, and where do we start? I want to just talk about that rehabilitation piece, because that's where I first, I think, came to encounter you, was the work that you have done around that rehabilitation in your work. Tell us about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean I'm a neuropsychologist, so I'm trained as a clinical psychologist. I then went on to do extra training to work with people with neurological conditions and you know, it's fair to say, it's been quite traditional rehab. So you know, we think of rehab. Lots of people sort of think about maybe a muscle injury or. But actually the people I see have had quite serious, catastrophic injuries to their brains and it's a long, long recovery and it's really hard to find stuff to keep people engaged and it's really hard to find stuff that's interesting but also targets some of those other things like your emotional wellbeing and your sense of connectedness and doing something purposeful and meaningful.
Speaker 2:And I learned to DJ as a bit of a midlife well, not midlife, obviously midlife-ish crisis, pre -pandemic. That's how we're all doing it. And I'm really really fortunate that a lovely woman, a very inspirational woman, called Lisa Lashes, who was a very famous DJ I think she was the first ever DJ to be in the top 10 DJs in the world so she ran a DJ school and I decided to come along. Thankfully, lisa took me under her wing. Like you, I had no idea what this stuff was called, no idea how it worked, but I could see instantly that this was a really mindful, really therapeutic activity. I found so much pleasure in it and there was just so much to it.
Speaker 1:I thought actually we can utilize this and think about how we can use this as a tool to help people in their journey of recovery do you know that mindful is really interesting because myself and Sonia, my the birthday girl uh, when we went to the first lesson, I think that was Sonia's output Sonia's comment was you know, if you can keep both us two probably quite hyperactive and mischievous and chatty, and so you kept us for two hours focused on what we needed to do, and that was both of our takeaways. Was that mindfulness? That's wonderful, which was just so, you know? Not quite, lisa Lashes. So how was your journey? We always talk about no one's journey or path is the same or straight. How did you? Where did it start for you, penny? Because you grew up as an expat. I did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I grew up in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates in the 80s, which is not. It was very different to the place you see today. My dad was an engineer, so he was a great sort of innovator and travelled the world, you know, installing communication systems and helping the world get moving. So if you ever use your mobile phone in the Emirates that's because of my dad. So you know, I really had that kind of sense of doing things that are fantastic and doing things that are great and doing things to benefit humanity. But it was quite a different place then.
Speaker 2:The world's much more connected now and when we kind of lived out there in the 80s and 90s, there was a very small community and you sort of were a British expat and there was a British club I think it's just called the club now, which is nice, but you did have a real sense of community and you went to school with people from everywhere, you know and all these kind of barriers and things that seem to be really present in the world at the moment and lots of things that people are talking about in terms of differences in society and communities. We didn't have any of those because we were just united by being some like kids in a random country that were just trying to get on with being teenagers and getting on with our lives, but in a country that was very new. You know, the Emirates only became a country in the seventies, so you know, by the time we're in the eighties it was very fresh and new and it just gave you a real sense of a different sort of belonging. And so I sort of took that forward in my life and I then moved back to the UK. That was a bit of a culture shock, as you can imagine.
Speaker 2:I moved to the Midlands, to a very small town in the Midlands, went to boarding school for a couple of years and again that was sort of really instrumental in just shaping my views of the world and about how connected we all are and actually how a lot of my life is all about relationships and understanding people and understanding what, what, what makes us great actually are the people around us and the strength of those relationships and the support that we have. And I guess I'm really lucky that because of those experiences I have got friends I've known. You know, even though we live thousands of miles away, we all still make the effort to meet up all over the world. I went to Canada for someone's wedding last week. My friend from Botswana is coming to see me this week and it's really great because you feel that sense of connectivity, but it is also a sense of a bit of a lonely place because we never really felt like you fitted anywhere and it was only a few years ago that I discovered there's a term for it and I think a term that probably resonates with a lot of people, even people with military backgrounds.
Speaker 2:I think, if you move around a lot called third culture kids, which are a group of kids and young people that grew up in societies that are completely different from their own culture, and you sort of create an identity and a culture in itself and you feel quite unique and different. But actually it's lovely to know there's lots of other people out there like that and I think all the third culture kids that I know have a real sense of adventure, a real sense of you know doing things and making stuff happen, because I guess that's what their parents did, that's what their families did. They went out and did things that were extraordinary, that other people had never done, and so took that into my career and, you know, became a clinical psychologist, which in itself is super tough and there's probably people listening on this podcast that might want to do that and it is really tough. The competition is fierce and it takes a lot to get going, but I've had a lot of support with that as well.
Speaker 2:Went on to do neuropsychology, went on to become an innovator because I wanted to make those changes but along the way kind of really reflected on this idea of supporting each other and competitiveness and what that's all about for us, and particularly as women. I think we are often pitted against each other, whether it's the way we look, where we dress, whether you've got the right this, the right that, um, you know, it feels like there's a real kind of sense of competitiveness all along the way, and being a third culture kid, I think, has taken that away from me a little bit. I think actually there's a sense of trying to build a community and support each other and lift each other up. So, yeah, so a bit of a roundabout rambling way, but you know, I guess I'm really interested in people and I love people and I love helping people and supporting people. I know that sounds probably a bit corny and a bit cheesy, but genuinely that is the mission really.
Speaker 1:And it's human, connected. So when you say your dad created our in Abu Dhabi and if you speak on a mobile phone there, it would be part of his connectivity, but it's that human connectivity that you've taken and put into action right. Yeah, absolutely, you know. Some people call it networking, some people will call it some mentoring along the way or friendships, but it's a bit of everything, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Our similarities are the things that actually unite us, and I think there's more similarities between us than there are differences. But I think that the differences are often amplified and you're made to feel that actually you're the only person or that you somehow have to compete against other people to get where you're going. But actually I love that quote about there's room for everyone at the finish line, and I always try and say that to everyone. There really is, and you'll find your place. And sometimes it's like the tortoise and the hare Some of us will get there really quickly, some of us will slow and steady get there, but the tortoise still won the race at the end and it's just about us being connected.
Speaker 1:And you talk about that. You know everyone being at the finish line.
Speaker 2:I want to finish line. I'm going to talk about the awards because it was only.
Speaker 1:You know, he's in our, literally in our, rearview mirror, uh, from our, from our dj jet decks we may have mentioned, like I was a guest, the team have put a post out. It's lovely, simone, now available for I love it, loving it. You're now my agent, penny, just put it out there this summer, let's do it although saying that you're hooking up with my mom, I believe for champagne absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mom's table.
Speaker 1:New favorite thanks, you're hooking up with my mum, I believe, for champagne. I've heard Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, mum's table new favourite. Thanks, mum, you're out, I'm in. But that sense of winning it's not a winning, is it? It's like everyone in the room and I'm chatting to people and I'm watching the love on LinkedIn and Instagram and actually phone calls, old school emails, of just that. Thank you, because actually, just being in that room, I remember seeing a post last year very much around that vibe you know, had the best time ever, not winning anything. You know there's more to it than that and you've been a finalist before.
Speaker 2:I've been a finalist and on the day actually of the awards I by chance had spoken to someone else who was a finalist this year and what was really? We came together again via another event actually that you'd hosted when we were DJing on the roof of one of the former sponsors buildings last year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Sorry. We get everywhere. We do, we really do this is the thing about Simone.
Speaker 2:You will find yourself in all sorts of random places, but they'll be great places. I've got to get on one of those ships that's on my mission for next year.
Speaker 1:So yeah, warship visit definitely Okay, we're on it.
Speaker 2:So we'll make that one happen.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, so I'd met someone at that event and then she'd introduced me to someone else and etc.
Speaker 2:And by chance, we had a call earlier that day and she was like, oh I'm, I'm in a, I'm a finalist tonight.
Speaker 2:And she said to me and I hear this so many times about the awards I already feel like I've won, because I feel like just being acknowledged and just the fact that someone nominated me and took the time to to think about me and actually, um, acknowledges what I do and how I'm trying to make a difference and makes me feel like I'm a winner already. And I just thought that was just beautiful. And I think you hear that time and time again from everyone there and it just gets bigger and bigger and, um, and I love the thoughtfulness that you've given to the categories because the world has changed in nine years, ten years, ten years, um, there's jobs that people have now that didn't even exist 10 years ago, and in another 10 years there'll be more jobs, and so you know, we Are Power, has moved with the times with that and acknowledged the changes and brought more people in and spotlighted some of the change that's happening and how positive it can be, and I just absolutely love it.
Speaker 2:I'm delighted to be a part of it. So, and you can't get rid of me now.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, we're not for Christmas.
Speaker 2:I know where your mum is. Yeah, exactly you know where my mum is. I'll see you at Christmas dinner.
Speaker 1:Oh, wouldn't that be fun. Yeah, I'm in. Get me mum on the DJs. Your family believes there's no, should be no self-imposed barriers, and one of your never delegate work you aren't prepared to do yourself or don't fully understand that takes me back for the awards, putting up pop-ups, for creating awards boxes.
Speaker 2:But you know what you do, don't you? Because it's part of the front. You lead from the front and, well, you lead from the front, but actually some of us don't. Some of us are those like gentle herders and shepherders that was kind of at the back, just gently coaching everyone along. But you're absolutely right that you know it value of mine, and you know, thank you to my dad for showing me that. And I do remember, you know, years ago, him climbing up these towers in the middle of the desert to go and check on something at the top, because he was the only one that could. And I remember looking at that, thinking that's what it's all about, really, isn't it? So take everyone with you and if you get that belief behind, just gives you a sense of strength and courage and empowerment wherever you are in, whatever situation you find yourself in.
Speaker 1:And do you have a quotation or a set of words that you live by? Oh gosh, that's a difficult one. Yeah, I know, phone a friend.
Speaker 2:No, I actually have gone completely blank on that one. But you know, like I say, I am a really big believer in, like, you can do anything and the only limitations and barriers are within your own mind. But actually, if you look on my LinkedIn post at the moment, there's a quote that I've put as my banner. I've decided to start changing to use real world quotes and it's a quote actually from a prison that during the apartheid in South Africa, someone had written this on the wall and I thought, even in that most hopeless situation, someone had written something so positive and it says when life kicks you, let it kick you forwards. And it just even really, really resonates with me and I sort of wanted to put it up there just to say, actually, you can do this, whatever happens. Just let it nudge you a little bit further forwards.
Speaker 1:And you talked about sort of growing up in Abu Dhabi, then coming back to the Midlands in a boarding school, kind of reintegrating into a new community that maybe wasn't as safe actually, because you didn't have that shared, you know, the third culture, kids, yeah. How did you sort of get through some of that? How did you kind of evolve into the new, you know, not just area, but the new world, because it's not quite closeted but it's definitely sort of it was definitely a different world?
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, we got back and we were like gosh, yeah, just some of the things you took for granted, like that people go out on their speedboats at the weekend is quite normal when you're out in the Middle East, but actually it's quite an affluent thing here and you had to kind of rebalance yourself and readdress yourself.
Speaker 2:I was very lucky, though, that, because I was in boarding school, there was lots of other young people there whose parents were in the army, whose parents were in the Navy, who had travelled a lot. So again, we're still all friends and still united by understandings. But it was tough, and I think I really found my home when I got to university, because once I got to Liverpool didn't started working and started living and working in Liverpool, I realised actually what a multicultural place the north is and everyone sort of embraces you with open arms. It was just absolutely wonderful. So I've been, you know, living up here for 20 years now and I don't think I'm going to be going anywhere anytime soon.
Speaker 1:And did you think, when you were back in Abu Dhabi, inventing, creating networking, building friendships that you would ever have a blue plaque?
Speaker 2:Gosh, yeah, I mean, that was quite something. That's a wow moment.
Speaker 2:Dr Penny Traney, tell us about that. Thank you, so those are plaques that are given out. They're purple plaques actually. Oh yeah, sorry, I should say they purple for to acknowledge the colour of Innovate UK. Yes, of course. Who award those colours, those plaques, to women who have won a Women in Innovation Award, which they are very, very competitive. I was one of 50 winners a couple of years ago and was very, very heavily pregnant filling out this application form, feeling very unwell and not wanting to tell anyone that I was pregnant because I thought it might bias or hinder me getting the award.
Speaker 2:Although you know I sit here and think I'm very liberated, et cetera. We all still have some of those barriers in our minds and some of those things that we have to overcome. But yeah, my plaque acknowledging my innovation, which was something I developed for to help us in rehab, to help speed things up productivity software that I invented called Compass, formerly Goal Manager. I've got a plaque on my building that I work in and it's the Eleanor Rathbone building, and Eleanor Rathbone was a suffragette who invented child benefit here in the UK.
Speaker 1:So pretty good pedigree to be associated with, really, yeah. And you just talked about your little Enola, who I met last week, who has a Northern Power Women, baby, girl, girl, but will well have grown out of it by now. But, uh, what do you hope for hair? What do you hope the world will be like? Because we've talked about you know, we've had many of whatsapp message go what we're going to do about this? What can we do? How can we drive this? What we're going to do?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, you know my big passion is we need to now be working on the Northern Power Girls. So I think and actually again networking at the awards, sort of in the middle of mixing I had a chat with I think his name was Vinny who was running a massive event the following day for 300 school girls who were coming for a networking event run by lots of top companies, and what I loved is he was like they're all like like younger kids 11 to 13, I think, which I think is the age need to get in there and start inspiring people. But you know, I just really hope that she lives her life like me, that she doesn't. I never realised that there were any limitations to what I could achieve until I started coming up across those, because growing up there weren't limitations in our household it was.
Speaker 2:You can be whoever you want to be, and it is kind of sad when you know that shine gets rubbed off a little bit as you kind of face the reality of the world. But I think the world is changing and I just like to think that she can be absolutely whoever she wants to be without thinking, giving it a moment's thought about. This might be something I can't do because I'm a woman, because that is not the case and that really is my message to anyone out there really, like it's not the case, you can do, you can do these things. Get some support around you and get that mentor and get your squad, get your, get your army behind you, um, and you know they'll lift you up and take you northern power girls, watch this space.
Speaker 1:Finally, what's next for you, gosh?
Speaker 2:what a bit of rest on dj tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you mentioned that, no, okay yeah, so we've got a few things coming up this year. So, um, you know, doing a lot of work with the university, we're sort of redeveloping our program. I'm trying to design a clinical psychology program for the future, so I'm the academic director on that program. So we're doing a huge amount of work to make sure that we're updating it and it's fresh and that we can meet the needs of the population. Um, but personally I'm looking forward to just a bit of a year of mooching about going to some music festivals. Haven't managed to get Glastonbury tickets this year, but maybe there's still the resale. Everything comes to sheer weights, but I did buy myself some tickets for Basement Jack, so I'm looking forward to that, you're living it.
Speaker 1:Maybe they'll get you up on stage, penny, maybe that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Maybe, but a little plug really that every year that we run an accessible festival, so it was the UK's designed to be totally accessible. It's up in Bury, so it's a local. It's in July. We have a DJ tent, so I now have a DJ school, as you mentioned. Some of the DJs there run a tent, there are stages, we get people coming from all over and it's absolutely fantastic, and so that's my biggest focus at the moment is helping make that as big and as good as it can be.
Speaker 1:So yeah, please do, come on down. Absolutely amazing Penny Trainer. Never stops, never stops spinning those decks, never stops being a kind human, passionate about paying it forward and just keeping that community well. Penny, dr Penny, purple Plaque owner, penny lots of other initials, penny Thank you so much for joining me and cannot wait for our adventures this year.
Speaker 2:Me too. Simone, thank you always for including me and taking me along on these crazy missions. I'm loving the ride, so more to come. See you at Christmas dinner. See you at Christmas dinner.
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