We Are Power Podcast
The We Are PoWEr podcast spotlights voices and perspectives that need to be heard. Our weekly podcast, with listeners in over 60 countries, delivers PoWErful conversations that inspire, challenge, and empower... from personal life stories to business insights and leadership lessons.
We share diverse experiences, bold discussions, and real solutions. Whether you're looking for career advice, topical themes, or stories of resilience and success - this is where voices spark change.
We Are Power Podcast
Shattering Glass Ceilings: The First Female Red Arrows Pilot
In this episode of the We Are PoWEr Podcast, we sit down with Kirsty Murphy MBE — trailblazing pilot, proud daughter, and people-first innovator. From growing up on an RAF squadron to becoming the first and only female Red Arrows pilot, Kirsty shares how she carved out her own path in a world where few women had gone before.
She speaks openly about building a career that’s more like a climbing wall than a ladder — full of bold moves, challenges, and powerful pivots. From the RAF to Connected Places Catapult, Kirsty continues to break barriers, now leading innovation that puts people and purpose at the heart of technology.
We also hear about receiving her MBE from King Charles, inspiring young girls at air shows, and why visibility matters more than ever.
Chapters:
00:00 – Introduction to Kirsty Murphy MBE
02:40 – Becoming a Fighter Pilot
05:32 – First Female Red Arrows Pilot
08:57 – Representation and Responsibility
11:12 – Life After the Air Force
17:40 – Innovation and Tech for Good
20:02 – Career Lessons and Royal Recognition
24:12 – Making Human-Centered Impact Through Tech
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power podcast. If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is the podcast for you, your career and your life. We release an episode every single Monday with listeners in over 60 countries worldwide, where you'll hear personal life stories, top-notch industry advice and key leadership insight from amazing role models. As we Are Power is the umbrella brand to Northern Power Women Awards, which celebrates hundreds of female role models and advocates every year. This is where you can hear stories from all of our awards alumni and stay up to date with everything. Mpw Awards and we Are Power Hello, hello. Welcome to the podcast. Today, I am delighted to be joined by Kirsty Murphy, mbe. Welcome to the podcast, thank you for having me. Now. You talk about your career being like a rock climbing wall. Is that?
Speaker 2:right. Yeah, that's right yeah.
Speaker 1:How are we going to speed talk through this? Because you know everyone's going to know you're the first female, or the only female, pilot in the Red Arrows. Yes, so far. Wow, like super impressive. How did you get from here to there?
Speaker 2:So I started off, to be honest, when I joined the Red Arrow. I'm sorry. I joined the Air Force when I wanted to join the Air Force from about the age of 11 or 12, actually, but at no point was the Red Arrows on my radar at all for that. I just wanted to join the Air Force, be a fast jet pilot, be on the front line, and that was my kind of ambition. It was only actually once I was on the front line and I walked out of my the office that we were in at the time and on the wall opposite was basically an advert saying taking applications for this year's Red Arrows team.
Speaker 2:And I went to look at it because there's some requirements you have to fulfill. And I went down that list of requirements and went, oh, I could apply to be the Red Arrows, I've got all those things. And walked off down the corridor like laughing almost, and then there was that little seed in my brain, went oh, so I could actually be a Red Arrows pilot. And then that kind of grew and grew and I couldn't let go of it. So yeah, ended up applying, but yeah, totally wasn't part of the plan at any point.
Speaker 1:Did you ever have a plan? I know you said from 11, that's what you wanted to do, but what point did it manifest? Because you've got family connection. That's right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was lucky in that. The reason I wanted to join the Air Force was definitely because of my dad, not because I thought he was going to make it easy. It was, and I'm a real believer of this. It's just because I saw it. I saw my dad and his friends who were normal human beings. They weren't godlike in any way, as much as I obviously love my dad and think he's a god Good backfill there. Yeah, just in case he listens, it was realistic, it was. I saw people doing it. It wasn't something that I, you know, I didn't understand or couldn't even see a route to get to. It's relatable right.
Speaker 1:So again exactly that, exactly that.
Speaker 2:So you know you can't be what you can't see. I could see it every day of my life. So that basically introduced me to the Air Force and the idea that maybe it might be something I want to do. And I was lucky in the summer holidays. I used to go to work with dad when I was on holiday and mum and dad are still working and I used to hang out on the squadron and the squadron was amazing.
Speaker 2:The people on the squadron and I say guys, because they were all guys back in those days there were no female fast jet pilots and they used to really make me feel so welcome. I used to plan missions with them. I'd go to the control tower, I'd talk to my dad on the radio I mean, you'd never be allowed to do this nowadays but I'd talk to dad on the radio, I'd watch them take off and land, I'd be part of the debrief and they made me feel so much part of that and that's what I wanted to be part of. So I joined the Air Force because I wanted to be part of that, not necessarily to be a pilot, but being a pilot was how I saw myself, being able to be part of that and that's something I sort of reflect on quite a lot as I've got older, because that's why I joined the Air Force.
Speaker 2:When I talk to my colleagues generally male friends who have been pilots in the Air Force, when I ask them why they joined the Air Force, it's because they saw the Red Arrows at an air show, they saw the Harrier at an air show. They wanted to be a Red Arrows pilot, they wanted to be a Harrier pilot. For me it was a very, very different reason to go into it and I'm very conscious of that now when I talk to young people that actually the reasons people go into jobs can be very different and there's no right or wrong way. But it means that when we think about jobs or stem roles, you've got to think about why different people might want to be part of it. It's not always for the same reason, so you've got to appeal to lots of different people in that way. And did it live up to that?
Speaker 1:expectation. Yeah, it was amazing yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:I mean being in the air force is is fantastic. There's a lot of sacrifices to living that kind of life in the military. Ultimately, you know, you go where you're told um, that's moving around every three years but also going out on operations and detachments. I was away a lot but equally there's a you know there's a flip side to that and the friendships I've made, the experience I've got, you know I can sit in a bar and bore people mindless with my stories of things that I've done in the Air Force.
Speaker 2:It was amazing and obviously the pinnacle for me, being in the Red Arrows. It was so humbling to be part of that heritage, to wear that red flying suit. You become a bit sort of semi-famous. There's a lot of followers of the Red Arrows and you walk down the street when you're at an air show and people recognize you and they want to talk to you. But it's not you as an individual, it's the red suit. That's the famous bit and it's, like I say, very humbling to get to wear it for a couple of years and be part of that and part of the history of it.
Speaker 1:It's quite how you deal with that, because it's that sense of responsibility. It's national pride, it's global pride, isn't it? Yeah, it is it, it's infamous.
Speaker 2:I'll be totally honest, I think when we I'm talking for myself really, but I guess a lot of other people would be the same when I joined, it was about me being a Red Arrows pilot, because that's just what I knew. You start going to air shows and you realise it's way bigger than me just being a Red Arrows pilot. It's about the Red Arrows and what it stands for and the feeling it creates in people the hairs on the back of the neck. Even I now, when I watch the red arrows displaying or a video of them, I get hairs on the back of my neck still and I go, wow, I was part of that. That's amazing. So it is a big responsibility to uphold and how have you dealt with that?
Speaker 1:Because it's interesting sort of track back to something that you said earlier. You know, a there's endless statistics, isn't there is when a. You know, let's go into stereotypes when a, when a woman looks at a job, if we can only do nine out of ten, then we'll dismiss it, whereas if a guy looks, you do five out of ten, they'll still go for it. Yeah, but you looked at that, there was a click and you knew you could yeah.
Speaker 2:So maybe I was lucky in that. Um, there were a set of prerequisites and I could tick all those boxes, so I wasn't in that situation where I'm like, well, I could do two thirds of that job, maybe I'll give it a go. I had to be good enough and there's a big selection process. So when I got into the team and got that position, I knew I was good enough and I was worthy of being there, if you like. But yeah, just to pull back on that responsibility thing, I think my attitude towards female pilots and getting more females to be pilots when I was new in the Air Force, I just thought, if I just do what I need to do and do it well, that's all I need to do. And you know, gradually, over a period of time, more and more females will want to do this and you know I just need to do the best I can and be a great role model as much as I can be.
Speaker 2:It was only really when I joined the Red Arrows and I remember my very first air show and we were on the ground, you know, doing signings and stuff, and I heard this Kirstie, kirstie, kirstie and I looked up and these three girls literally were running towards me and they jumped I mean literally jumped on me and a couple of them had ginger hair, which obviously really touched me, because although I'm a bit blonder or greyer now, but I was quite ginger in those days and they jumped on me and they're like we want to be Red Harris, violet, kirstie and I thought, oh my God, you know, they've never had a female to say that.
Speaker 2:I suddenly feel quite responsible about that. And then the mum walked up and she went oh, you don't want to do a job like that, girls. And I thought, wow, that's their home saying that to them and the expectation is that girls shouldn't do jobs like that. And then I really felt right, if I just keep doing my job quietly in the background, nobody's going to know I need to be jumping up and down, so girls like that get to see me and go. No, I need to be jumping up and down, so girls like that get to see me and go. Hey, someone at my mom might be saying I shouldn't do jobs like that, but that lady over there is doing it, and now I know I could do it. So that became my sort of responsibility, if you like.
Speaker 1:You let your res and detch as well, isn't it? Because clearly you were relatable straight away to these young girls and this emerging talent. But how?
Speaker 2:do we solve a problem? It sounds awful, this, but how do you solve a problem like parents? But how do you solve a problem like that? That individual was like you don't want to do that. Yeah, because that's. Yeah, I mean how, I don't know.
Speaker 2:All you can do is I think, or my approach to it, put it that way is trying to touch as many lives as I can. I speak to as many schools as I can. I'll never turn something down. If I can, if I can possibly make it, because because you only need to, you know, you only need to make a difference to one child's life, just to see something outside their normal day to day that makes them think maybe they could do something different to what their, maybe what they feel like their track already is their predestination, whatever you want to call it. It's maybe they think that actually there might be another route that I could take and step outside of what is comfortable and my normal kind of home life or background and that's not just girls, boys thing I'm talking about, you know, social economic groups, backgrounds, how people, where people are coming from, and things that they're just outside their normal day to day life. Really. So raising aspirations of young people is something I feel really strongly about.
Speaker 1:And it's creating those opportunities that go with it and even just seeing you in action and being approachable to chat. Yeah, it's free right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I mean I was super lucky. My dad was in the Air Force. I got to experience it firsthand. Lots of children don't get that opportunity, but I can go to schools and I have a little PowerPoint presentation with photos of like a day in the life of a pilot. And it's amazing the response, because they have no idea what you actually do as a pilot. So you know, I I show them how we plan a map and things like that, and it's not all in the air, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly, and they love it and they see the radar screens and things like that and at least they get an idea of what it might be like and they can maybe make it more relatable and you've very much like instructed and given back has been part of that, feels like it's part of your DNA as well to pass on and train the next gen, or the next gen, whether it be in the Air Force, that's quite key to you, isn't it? Because you've been an instructor.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, so I was. When I was younger and wanted to join the Air Force, there were people who told me I couldn't do it, shouldn't do it, and I found that really difficult to deal with. Also, my mum's a teacher, so I have to say I've got my dad's DNA about jeans, going into the Air Force and the military and doing something that's impactful in that way and quite patriotic, and my mum's DNA, I think, is about caring for people and trying to help people to achieve what they can achieve in their life. So I think the two combined have ended up weirdly. That's exactly what my life has been flying and helping others and teaching.
Speaker 1:And at what point did you think, like was it 17 years?
Speaker 2:In the Air Force yeah 16 years, sorry. 17 years in the Air, force, yeah.
Speaker 1:And at what point did you went? I'm ready for my next adventure.
Speaker 2:So the way I joined the Air Force, I joined up for a set period of time and that was basically an option point and I could stay in the Air Force and continue a career or leave, and it was really clear to me that I'd had a brilliant time in the Air Force. I was getting older. I wanted a family. I didn't really want to keep deploying with a young family. For me that's not right. Other people do it and I've got no strong opinions on how other people live their lives, but for me it wasn't right and it felt like the right time to go and see something else in the world. I felt like there's a big world out there and I should go and explore it. Wow, and you went. Space station, not space station, space agency, space agency.
Speaker 1:Sorry, forgive me, I didn't go to space.
Speaker 2:I would have loved to have done that.
Speaker 1:You could have just gone with that then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I went there I was up there with Katy Perry, conversation would have dried up quite quick. My knowledge would have gone, so go big or go home, just just a small little side job so where did you find yourself?
Speaker 1:where did you think, well, right, I want this decision for me. Um, and my next adventure. What do I want to be doing in it?
Speaker 2:you, know it was really hard. Um, and I now, when I talk to young people who don't know what they, what they want to do, I really understand how difficult that is. I knew from a very early age I wanted to be in the Air Force and I'd always been very clear I left the Air Force. I was flying for a civilian display team, actually called the Blades.
Speaker 2:So it was perfect because it was a sort of stepping stone out of the Air Force. I did that for six years. Covid happened and it made me realise actually I wanted to do something else, maybe a bit more impactful, and maybe draw on some of my other skills other than just being a pilot, as I like to say especially not just.
Speaker 1:We should ban the word, just um, but it was really hard.
Speaker 2:I'm like, well, I know I have loads of skills, but what could I do? That's going to be impactful. So, um, I actually initially just thought, well, I'm, I've got all my, I've got project management qualifications. I would. This was COVID, I'll take a sabbatical rather than be on furlough and I will just try and get a project management job as a contractor. And I did, and it just happened to be through a contact. I wrote to literally everybody I knew, saying do you need a contractor for like three, four, five, six months, something like that? And one person said yes, and you only ever need one. Yes, right. One person said yes, and I ended up working in the space agency on a project as a delivery manager for a transformation program, and that led to me being the secretariat of their board. So I got to really see how corporates work.
Speaker 1:It's really been at the table, isn't it right?
Speaker 2:At a high level, which was really fascinating. And then I ended up being the chief of staff for the agency as well for the CEO. So all of that. Suddenly I had a feeling of like, okay, now I know what I'm interested in. It's definitely still tech for me. I want to look to the future. I like the innovation and that kind of stuff. And then I found this job in the Connected Places Catapult. Again, I realized it was a business I was really interested in, linked to transport, innovation and tech, but I didn't know what I could do in it. So I basically got myself a job. You know, I got my foot in the door and then I've been there three years now and every year I've changed role, not because everyone's's pushing me out of my roles, but I keep finding out. There's something else I could find out more about and I've kind of been developing myself within the business and I'm now running accelerator programs and I'm super happy doing it.
Speaker 1:It's brilliant and it's interesting. Innovation is really key. Obviously we've we've been partnering with connected places cattle for a few years now and we've really worked around the. We've changed. Actually, we have a as part of our northern power women awards. We have one of the categories which is about inclusive innovation and it is trying to re-educate. So if you think about you talking to young talent in schools or in in academia, I think sometimes there can be this perception about innovation is it a lab coat? Is it a drone? Innovation comes in so many forms and so we very much focus with CPC, sort of talking about what's human focus, what's the human-centered approach to innovation and what's that sort of tech for good. It's not just one thing, is it?
Speaker 2:no, exactly, you know it's very easy to focus on the sort of technology which is solution.
Speaker 2:The thing, whatever it is, whether it's an autonomous um autonomous vessel that I was looking at last week that runs off hybrid and electric, and you know that in itself is brilliant, but actually it's bigger than that. It's about this company's based in Plymouth. It's about the jobs that that company's creating in Plymouth. It's also about the skills that are now coming into the area, because you know, if you end up in a little innovation center down in Plymouth now lots of other maritime companies are coming into the area. That's raising the skill level in the area and also attracting other innovative companies and you know green hydrogen and things like that. So the impact of a single thing is quite impressive and the social value of that, not just the piece of tech that means we're going to decarbonize. It's much broader than that and that's what I find quite exciting and also makes me feel like I'm doing something that's impactful, not just, you know, helping the planet and decarbonizing, but actually it reaches much further than that.
Speaker 1:And just sort of tracking back a little bit. So when you left the Air Force and you wrote all those letters and, like you say, it only takes one to say yes what did it feel like for the nose and how did you deal with it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's when you look at my career in the Air Force in particular and my sort of my biog, if you like, you know I did this and I flew in the Red Arrows and I was an instructor, and it all looks like some kind of really successful route and everything just sort of got handed to me on a plate and it really wasn't like that. So I think from the word go, the very first time I applied to the Air Force, they told me to go away and they said no, you're not, you're not right for the Air Force, you'll never be able to cope in a male-dominated environment and your arms are a bit too short. So you know, life has never just been one nice sort of escalator of success. It's always been like that. You know, you always have failures and challenges and obstacles and that's fine, that's just how it is.
Speaker 2:So I didn't really. I was just like, okay, that's fine, they were all people I knew and they were my contacts and I knew that they would try if they could help me. But they couldn't, and I get that. It's COVID as well. It was a very difficult time for everybody.
Speaker 2:So you know, I just kind of carried on. Really I didn't worry too much about them. I knew something would come along at some point.
Speaker 1:I'm a big believer in that Everything comes to sheer weight, but everything comes to shoe weights, yeah, but when you're sort of putting on your skills down, that you've learned um over the, the, the 17 years, and then trying to piece it into where you might go, we talked at least all the talk about transferable skills and stuff like that. Uh, at what point even probably now are you still thinking, oh, I'm still using that? I reflect back to my short of eight years in the Royal Navy and I came out and I was very much hospitality events. I know it took me a long time to realize the connectivity back with the service and I definitely, you know, and it took a while to realize that actually it was because of what I did there. But we didn't call it project management then and we didn't call it, you know, sort of tactical planning or stuff like that. It was just what we did. Is the dots still?
Speaker 2:being joined? Yeah, very much. So I think for me it's people skills definitely that I got from the quite quickly. I think that comes from moving role every three years. Naturally, you don't have time to spend a year getting to know everybody and making friends. You just sort of get in there and get stuck in, and I think that skill has been really, really helpful all the way through my career, especially having left. So now, especially on a project like this, where you kind of arrive and you've got new partners, you need to get to know people and start working quickly with them, and I feel like that's what, definitely one of my strengths.
Speaker 2:And then, like you say, there's something about the planning and the organization and also something about you know, when we fly and we plan missions, we always think about the what ifs. So what if you go into the tanker? What if you can't tank? What if they haven't got enough fuel? What are the backup plans? So I'm not talking about thinking about every possible scenario, but it's about having that sort of agility to think around problems and I've already got a bit of an idea about what you might do if something goes wrong. So I think when you know, as I just said, things don't happen smoothly in life, whether it's your life, whether it's your job, whether it's your project. But I'm very easily able to cope with these little you know knocks, if you like, because I just think around the problem and think, okay, well, how do we still achieve what we want to achieve? Just in a slightly different route. And that again, has definitely come from flying training and the military, because that's what it was all about.
Speaker 1:And what would you say to? So 11-year-old Kirsty knew that she wanted to fly for the join the Red Arrows. A few years later, kirsty was told you can't join. What would you say to that younger self? Because you came back and did it and went I'm like, I'm in, but someone else might have walked away. What would you say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think if you walk away and I have talked about this before, where I've said, sometimes there are obstacles in your life and you've got to figure out whether you're going to go over them or go around them, or you realize they're just in the way and you're going to have to find a completely different route. And I can think of examples of all those three scenarios where I've really gone over that obstacle. Whatever it's taken, it's been tough. Others I've cleverly gone round, and then there's someone. You know what. This isn't going to happen, for whatever reason. I'm not going to keep flogging myself on something that's never going to happen, and being able to accept that is part of it.
Speaker 2:When I was a couple of years ago, when I first started talking to younger people and I was always asked what's the one piece of advice you'd give yourself, you younger, you and I always used to say be yourself, don't try to conform. Because I was a real conformist and I still am a little bit the way I was brought up, I think, and that was what I always said. But I actually realised now, when I was young and I think this is true of all young people you do need to conform. You need to conform, you need to be part of your friendship group, and there are some things you have to do at that age to be part of your friendship group. That's kind of okay. But just know that if you're not quite comfortable because you're not quite fitting into that group, that's okay. Your time will come and that's what I now try and say.
Speaker 1:So it's about that really for me now so take me back to the would have been the queen's birthday, probably six weeks before you got a nice brown envelope. Yeah, what did?
Speaker 2:that feel like Do you know what? It was such a shock? I mean, it was a total shock and I completely misread it, because I'd actually been asked to write a citation for someone else and so I'd done that and I thought this letter was about that. Um, it was really great news, but the thing that the citation you supported, the nomination you supported, has been successful. So I read this with that frame of mind and then I sort of went hang on there that says my name at the top of it, that's me, no, it's actually me and I. It was so unexpected. It was amazing, um, in the military I know a lot of people who have got various awards and um very well deserved, but I have to say, getting one as a civilian was particularly special.
Speaker 2:It really was, um, and my dad has an OBE as well and I was like, wow, look at us now to get sorry, my dad's got an MBE, not an OBE, I'm promoting him um. And yeah, I thought, wow, that's pretty incredible. And who presented you with your mb? I got prince, prince charles, king charles, now prince charles at the time. Yes, and it was great because, of course, he went through flying training in the air force. So, um, I mean, obviously he's very good at talking to people anyway, that's his job. But I got there and we started talking about aerobatics and how it used to make him feel and he, he really struggled with the G and it was really funny and I could see some of the people around all sniggering as he's laughing and telling me these stories about trying to do aerobatic training in the Air Force. It was very funny.
Speaker 1:But it strikes me that that award and that honour has just driven you to do more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. Do you know what? I also felt very humbled by everyone else that was there. That's the best networking day ever, right? But also like wow, I don't feel quite as amazing as everybody else I mean some of the people there. What they've done over a much longer life than mine and over a much longer period was quite incredible and I did feel very humbled to be part of that in itself. But yeah, it was a really special day and it's really nice to know that. It's nice to know deep down you're making an impact on children. Like I said, if I can just change one person's life, that's brilliant, but actually to be recognised for it is a really heartwarming thing.
Speaker 1:And what are you excited about? You've talked about the innovation and the tech and what's new coming forward. Is that what keeps driving you? And that's what this role is like. Motivating you now, yeah, accelerating your ambition. Good, I love the way you got that in.
Speaker 2:I'll be completely honest, it's still the people thing. I love dealing with people and tech and this job and innovation isn't just about a new toy that we need to sell and commercialise. It's about the people surrounding that toy and that story, and that's what I love about my job. I get to meet partners. I get to meet the SMEs and the small companies, the innovators, the people within the catapult and pulling all those people together. The catapult is very much a convener of all those different organisations and government and academia, and to be in a place where I get to do all that it's literally my strength, so I love it.
Speaker 1:But it's the impact that that makes. One of my first job at the service was working in sort of economic development by going collaborating as a mass, almost, so to speak. It impacts on the economy, the hospitality industry, the travel industry. That's exactly what you're doing when you were talking about sort of creating something down in Plymouth. It impacts on skills, impacts on how we can develop people, so that's on young talent, experienced talent and the stakeholder and the supply chain that goes with it. That's what's exciting about innovation, isn't?
Speaker 2:it. It really is, and I was contacted literally yesterday on LinkedIn because I'd done a post about the trip down to Plymouth and someone had contacted me because they'd supplied the green hydrogen for that trial, for the sea trials that are coming on, and they're a small company themselves. So again it was. You know, it was great to be able to connect with them and then hopefully we can use them again in the future on other projects, you know. So it's all those little connections and putting the right people together and having those great conversations that actually bear fruit.
Speaker 1:And how would you describe yourself in three words, because you are made up of so many different parts? I've been putting them together in my head as we've been chatting, if you like. You know, convenience is one of your superpowers, for sure, but how would you describe yourself because?
Speaker 2:you're oh, that's really tricky. I would definitely say I've already said it a few times already people focused definitely hyphenated. You can have that thank you, yeah, otherwise that would be too, wouldn't it? Um, oh, you've really got me now. Uh, mindful, I think life's really important and you mustn't waste it. Um, I'm proud amazing Kirsty.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining me on the couch today. It is it's. We've covered a lot of ground, haven't we?
Speaker 2:a lot of earth space a lot of ground, a lot of tech, but all driven by humans yeah, absolutely that's the killing that is clearly in your heart, that makes you you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and thank you for being you. Thank you for being. Inspiration, I think, is inspirational. I think it can be an overused word, but it is. Do you know what you are? You are energizing and your enthusiasm is infectious. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you.
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